Interview with Padoh Mahn Sha Lah Phan

(This interview was carried out and published for first time in BURMA DIGEST last year, and now presented again here in memory of Padoh Mahn Sha Lah Phan, assassinated today by unkown gunmen.) .
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BURMA DIGEST: In the recent Martyr’s Day message, the KNU president called on all Karen ‘to uphold the Four Principles of Saw Ba U Gyi and carry on our revolutionary resistance, until final victory is achieved’. How would you define ‘victory’ in 2006, compared with Saw Ba U Gyi’s vision?
Padoh: Saw Ba U Gyi’s four principles are for arm struggle of the Karen Revolution. Further more, now we are using Mass Campaign, Political Campaign, Diplomatic Campaign, International Campaign and Media Campaign. In the future, we need to use these form of struggles.
BURMA DIGEST: The plight of the Karen people has received a good deal of coverage by international media, and support from volunteer groups such as the Free Burma Rangers. Why do you think that the international community governments have not been able to agree on more direct intervention in Burma?
Padoh: The role of the International media is very important for our struggle. We are trying to use it. The support to the Karen struggle and the people struggle of Burma is not the intervention. So international community government needs to support oppressed ethnics and oppressed people in Burma both direct and indirect way. The ethnics and the entire people are the main owner of the country.
BURMA DIGEST: The Karen Human Rights Group reported the current SPDC offensive in Papun district, which sounds like a ‘scorched earth’ policy to clear the area. Is this offensive larger than you have seen before, do you think it will continue in this way next year?
Padoh: Along the Karen revolution history this year SPDC offensive is not the largest, but we can say that this time offensive is the most cruel.
BURMA DIGEST: Some reporters have suggested that the latest offensive has been to move any insurgent groups away from Pyinmana. Does this sound plausible, given the massive build-up of troops at the new capital?
Padoh: For the new capital security, SPDC needs to clean KNU based in Toungoo, but this is not the main cause of SPDC major operation in Toungoo. The main cause is to abolish KNU and Karen people.
BURMA DIGEST: There have a number of recent news items and statements about the relationship between the KNU and the KNLA. The recent ‘KNU statement on topical events’ indicates the SPDC attempt at ‘divide and rule’ policy regarding the KNU and the KNLA, which has obviously failed. Is this just SPDC ‘divide and rule’, or are there divisions as suggested by Kevin Sites’ report on ‘Hotzone’?
Padoh: Different views are not between KNU and KNLA, not between KNU and No. (7) Brigade. It is only (7) Brigade commander and KNU, and KNLA. On this matter, SPDC tries to divide KNU, KNLA and the Karen unity. Now, all the problems have been solved by understanding and unity.
BURMA DIGEST: The recent ‘military alliance’ of the SSA-S/KNPP/KIO issued a statement calling for political reforms in Burma. We obviously noticed that the KNU was not mentioned. What is your view on this?
Padoh: SSA-S/ KNPP and KNO statement is their joint statement. KNU already understood them.

BURMA DIGEST: In the news reports of Johnny Htoo’s recent so-called ‘surrender’, there was mention of Shwe Pyar encouraging refugees from the Thai border to surrender to Rangoon. Did Johnny’s ‘surrender’ surprise you? Is this type of ‘subversion’ commonplace?
Padoh: The God Army is not a systematic revolution. This group based on superstition. In our Karen revolution history, we have seen many superstition groups. All these groups can not stay any longer. SPDC used Shwe Pyar to organize Johnny Htoo to surrender to SPDC.
BURMA DIGEST: What do you think are the threats to the Karen people ad the KNU of the proposed dams along the Salween?
Padoh: The Salween Dam project is threatening Karen people and Karen revolution. So we totally against this project. This project will encourage the SPDC military dictatorship.
BURMA DIGEST: The New Light of Myanmar recently reported that the DKB ‘Association’ was working with the SPDC on agriculture and education projects. However, in April the KNU reported conflicts with both SPDC and DKB Army. What is your current relationship with DKBA?
Padoh: DKBA is not independent. They are under the control of SPDC. DKBA is divided into two parts. One is totally controlled by the SPDC and the other part does not want to stay under the control of SPDC and want to make understanding with KNU. This group does not want anti-mass, does not like drugs. KNU is organizing the second kind of DKBA.
BURMA DIGEST: In the March 2006 article ‘The Breaking of the Dead End’, Htun Aung Gyaw, President, Civil Society For Burma, suggested that the ‘Ethnic minorities must be patient and trust the NLD’s move’, referring to the NLD’s Union Day offer. What is your opinion of this point of view?
Padoh: We, the ethnics understand DASSK, NLD and their roles. But we are not under the control of NLD. On Union Day Proposal, SPDC can get legitimacy. We are worrying for this. If SPDC gets legitimacy, they will use this right and get more long term of military dictatorship rule.
BURMA DIGEST: In the transition to a civilian government in Burma, what do you see as the role for the SPDC and the Tatmadaw?
Padoh: In transitional period, we hope that SPDC will become our dialogue partner and then they will work together with NLD, MP Group, Democratic Party, the people and all the ethnics. After that SPDC cannot stay any longer. For the Burma Army (Tamadaw), we need to reform as Federal Army and stay under the civilian government. But one thing is, it is very difficult to turn SPDC to become a dialogue partner.
BURMA DIGEST: What future do you think there is for the National Convention? Will the constitutions prepared by different ethnic groups form the basis for a new federal constitution for Burma? How much longer do you think the SPDC can stay in power?
Padoh: The national convention is totally controlled by SPDC. It is not a real National Convention. The constitution which based on this NC is only for the legitimacy of military dictatorship which has been ruling for along time. So the National Convention cannot solve the Burma’s problem. In my point of view, I believe that SPDC cannot stay any longer.
BURMA DIGEST: From a personal point of view, what gives you strength on this long road?
Padoh: The main strengths of my revolution life are my father, mother and my people. They are the heroes of my life. My strong belief is the truth and justice, the people, the revolution and self confidence. These are based on my heroes.
BURMA DIGEST: Will KNU make cease-fire agreement with SPDC regime or will continue the revolution for Karen people’s rights for self determination (autonomy)? Is there disagreement/split among KNU leaders concerning making cease-fire with SPDC?
Padoh: May be different people among KNU, KNLA and Karen people have different views on our Karen revolution. But the majority is united in KNU main Principle laid down in 13th KNU congress.
All the Karen is never given up for their self-determination right. We are trying for cease fire but this cease fire is not a kind of surrender, not enter into the legal fold. This is to solve political problems by political mean.
BURMA DIGEST: Anything else you would like to add for the international readers of Burma Digest?
Padoh: All the political parties, all the ethnics have been trying for political meaningful dialogue for along time. UN and international communities are trying for the dialogue as well. But SPDC does not accept it. Now, SPDC is trying to annihilate all the oppositions. We want the international communities to respect the self-determination right of all our people, all our ethnic people and give pressure to SPDC by many ways.
BURMA DIGEST: THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR THE INTERVIEW.
[Credits to Feraya, Taisamyone, Zoya and other Karen friends, with whose kind help this interview was carried out.]